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Traveller-digest      Friday, December 3 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1438<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Farscape<BR>
Re: Hull Grids<BR>
Re: 3d Mapping reaches<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Re: Farscape<BR>
RE: Antimatter<BR>
Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
RE: Professional Stereotyping<BR>
Re: 3D to 2D Mapping<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
Re: Brilliant Lances (was Re: Hello and TNE question)<BR>
Re Atlas<BR>
Re: Jump Grids<BR>
Some art on the web (was RE: 102 Vehicles)<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Re: One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 13:16:50 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Farscape<BR>
<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
><BR>
>I've watched a couple of episodes and really liked them.  It's pure space<BR>
>opera in the sense of how "realistic" it is, but I gotta give'em credit<BR>
>for not always having happy endings, and giving us a group of really<BR>
>interesting characters.<BR>
<BR>
My only problem is that I keep thinking: How would this have been handled in <BR>
_Red Dwarf_?<BR>
<BR>
Of course, _Red Dwarf_ is basically _The Odd Couple_ meets _Star Trek_. <BR>
Basically ...<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 16:02:51 -0500<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hull Grids<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:02:27 -0800<BR>
>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re Hull Grids<BR>
><BR>
>William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >Lanthanum Hull grids - didn't they originally appear in SOpM and were<BR>
>> >canonised in TNE and T4?<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Dom<BR>
>><BR>
>> Actually, if you look at the rules section in Regency Sourcebook, no.<BR>
>> RSB's Author used coils.<BR>
>><BR>
>> But there is a non-dgp reference to hull grids; I just can't remeber where.<BR>
<BR>
"Jumpspace", Marc Miller, JTAS#24 pp. 34-38, mentions a "network of wiring"<BR>
that maintains the jump field around the ship. The same article discusses<BR>
lanthanum only as the material of which jump coils are constructed, not as<BR>
a hull grid.<BR>
<BR>
William, what was the page reference in RSB? I hadn't noticed that<BR>
particular source of canonical information.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:28:12 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
Subject: Re: 3d Mapping reaches<BR>
<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
> > I'd be interested in seing the full tables (Preferably off list) for<BR>
> > J0.5-J6 by increments of 0.5... Send to my alternate e-mail:<BR>
> > wilh@alaska.com, if you would.<BR>
> <BR>
> As would I at tmixon@ghg.net please!<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
Is it too late to get on this list, especially for the database?  Or <BR>
are you going to post them somewhere on the net?<BR>
<BR>
Curious,<BR>
Jason<BR>
<BR>
=============================<BR>
Jason Kemp, ADS Programmer IV<BR>
(512)458-7111 ext. 3375<BR>
Internet Address:  jason.kemp@tdh.state.tx.us<BR>
<BR>
Most computer virus and email alerts are hoaxes.  For more info, check out:<BR>
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/beliefs/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm<BR>
==============================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:24:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Dec 99, at 11:07, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, I did some work along these lines using the CHView program<BR>
> for the First In Designer's Notes.  Unfortunately that article only<BR>
> appeared on Pyramid, so if you're not a subscriber. . .<BR>
> <BR>
> The gist was that:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1) I capped jump ranges at about 9 light-years, and assumed that this<BR>
> represented Jump-2.  I used a linear relationship between jump number and<BR>
> range, so that jump-1 was 4.5 light-years.  That kept the expected number<BR>
> of destinations reasonable (i.e. greater than zero, but less than ten or<BR>
> so).<BR>
> <BR>
> 2) You won't get "mains" of jump-1 accessible stars.  With the range<BR>
> assumptions I made above, though, you'll get "chains" of jump-2<BR>
> accessible stars reaching in several directions outward from Sol.<BR>
<BR>
You mean like 2300AD?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:24:11 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Farscape<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Dec 99, at 13:53, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.u wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Is anyone familiar with Farscape?<BR>
> <BR>
> It's just started on UK tv and I had thought that our American friends<BR>
> might be able to give the low down on whether it is worth bothering with.<BR>
> But then I noticed this new import actually came from Australia.<BR>
> <BR>
> I watched the first part and the usual caveats about banking space<BR>
> fighters, sounds in a vaccum and instant speech translation apply.  It<BR>
> seemed to be a kind of Buck Rogers Above & Beyond Klingon Star Wars kind<BR>
> of thing, but fun nonetheless.<BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone seen it down under?<BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine reckons it's quite good. I wouldn't know, as I've seen <BR>
about half an episode - I work at the time it screens :(<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:32:47 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Antimatter<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Dec 99, at 15:32, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  I've always gone with the limitations: AM power plants are<BR>
>  small, highly efficient and reliable, and use iddy biddy<BR>
>  amounts of fuel.  That being said, I see large vessels with<BR>
>  AM also having a fusion back-up system (can you say "impulse<BR>
>  engines, Mr. Scott"?), so that the AM fuel can be ejected in<BR>
>  extremis.  Perhaps AM could even be generated on board.<BR>
>  The next question might be: Do you still need all that jump<BR>
>  fuel?  IMTU, TL 17 jump drives do not.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC in MT from TL17 on jump drive use less and less fuel. I've always <BR>
assumed that they switch to AM for the drive, and thus as it gets more <BR>
and more efficient the drive needs less and less fuel for the jump, <BR>
until at TL20 odd all you're left with is that which is needed for the <BR>
bubble. It's also possible that at TL17+ a better understanding of the <BR>
whole jump-space/jump-drive thing is reached (typical Traveller - all <BR>
the realy cool stuff is extra-imperial).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:13:06 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:17:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
>Subject: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
><BR>
>- -Canon discusses long-range STL colony ships that travel "coreward" from<BR>
>earth to the Marches, suggesting a large-scale correspondence between jump<BR>
>space and real space.<BR>
><BR>
>- -Canon also mentions several shorter-range phenomena, such as small<BR>
>STL-based empires and the shock wave from the Darrian star-trigger, which<BR>
>suggest a small-scale real-to-jump correspondence.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The Zhodani core expeditions also require a large-scale correspondence.<BR>
<BR>
>So, what we need is a scheme that satisfies all these things and relates<BR>
>2D jumpspace to 3D real space in a relatively simple manner.  A<BR>
<BR>
It would take an infinite 2d area to fill a 3d volume unless you have places<BR>
that aren't accessible in Jump space.  Assuming the 2d plane falls through<BR>
all the orbits of planets in a system, does that mean 'up' off this plane<BR>
stops jump drive working?<BR>
<BR>
>possibility I was considering recently is that jump-space constitutes a<BR>
>ripple-pattern with its origin at the galactic center. Picture a "rock<BR>
>dropped in water" kind of ripple, but tighter, with a wave amplitude of<BR>
>about 2 subsectors and a frequency of about 1 parsec.  Thus, you get a<BR>
>picture of realspace by folding your sector maps up like an accordion<BR>
>along the spinward-trailing lines between every odd subsector.  This would<BR>
>only be the general pattern, there would be disruptions and "noise" in the<BR>
>system (due to high-gravity objects like black holes perhaps).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Two possible problems:<BR>
1) What about the stars more than 2 subsectors 'up' towards galactic north?<BR>
Are they accessible in Jump space?<BR>
<BR>
2) This makes the distance to the galactic core much greater - again this<BR>
messes up the core expeditions.<BR>
<BR>
>The advantage of this is that it allows jump space to move through normal<BR>
>space and occupy all points in normal space.  It also explains why the<BR>
>maps don't use directions like "galactic north" or "galactic south", as<BR>
>these are relatively meaningless (since you're effectively travelling<BR>
>coreward or rimward while travelling along these directions in realspace<BR>
>anyway).  With regards to STL ships, these can travel by "cutting through"<BR>
>the maps, but still generally travel in the directions described.  It<BR>
>works less well for short-range things, as the small STL empires should be<BR>
>able to access worlds several parsecs away, but one can accept that they<BR>
>"happened" to go after worlds along a plane in jump space.  Certainly this<BR>
>requires less suspension of disbelief than a 2D star map.  The Darrian<BR>
>disaster should also have affected worlds several subsectors over, though<BR>
>one could shift cannon a little to say that either it did or that the<BR>
>disaster only affected Darian itself, which then dragged their<BR>
>civilization down with it by cultural and economic factors alone.<BR>
><BR>
>So, any thoughts? Problems I haven't considered?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:21:45 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Professional Stereotyping<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>TV also grossly mischaracterizes engineering.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	And the profession that TV doesn't grossly mischaracterize<BR>
	is...?  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:58:22 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D to 2D Mapping<BR>
<BR>
<Anthony Jackson><BR>
> -Mapping between 3D and 2D is complex, though there are (As I understand<BR>
> it) and infinite number of solutions to the problem, mathematically.<BR>
<BR>
There are an infinite number of solutions, but no solutions that don't<BR>
result in locations which are very close together in 3d being extremely<BR>
separated in 2d. <BR>
</Anthony Jackson><BR>
<BR>
Yes, as I understand it you have a choice between consistent "medium<BR>
sized" differences or occasional discontinuities with very large<BR>
differences.  A thought occurs:  What about the Greater and Lesser<BR>
Rifts?  These could be discontinuities not in real space but in the<BR>
mapping between realspace and jump space.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<AJ><BR>
well under .5/cubic parsec.  The problem here is that your 'ripple<BR>
pattern' may go all the way out from the core, but it's only taking a 16<BR>
parsec disk out of the galaxy.  If you go beyond that (rather narrow)<BR>
disk, either jump drive becomes impossible, or you are suddenly on a who<BR>
_new_ jump-space, which would be many thousands of parsecs away by jump<BR>
routes (if we assume they meet at the core). <BR>
</AJ><BR>
<BR>
Yes, I think this is an inescapable problem, unfortunately.  One could<BR>
posit a complex pattern whereby the ripples themselves ripple in the<BR>
orthogonal direction, but that's got its own difficulties.  I don't<BR>
personally have a problem with limiting the space that's accessible by<BR>
jump, though. <BR>
<BR>
<AJ><BR>
Oh, another problem I just thought of.  Jump to the edge of a 'ripple'. <BR>
Take a week to cross (normal-space) into the next 'ripple'.  Jump again,<BR>
to the other edge of that ripple'.  With a jump-1 drive, every 2 weeks you<BR>
can move 32 parsecs.... (this also works for the problem above, letting<BR>
you jump thousands of parsecs in a couple weeks). <BR>
</AJ><BR>
<BR>
Damn, hadn't thought of that.  One would have to postulate some fairly<BR>
small gaps between the ripples that were innaccessible to jump.  They<BR>
don't have to be huge, just big enough to make it faster to go "the long<BR>
way" by jump.  About .25 ly should do it. <BR>
<BR>
<AJ><BR>
You can resolve both problems by having big chunks of space which can't be<BR>
jumped into, but this has its own weird problems.<BR>
</AJ><BR>
<BR>
Care to expand?  I'm more willing to accept innacessible portions of real<BR>
space than a 2D universe.<BR>
<BR>
<AJ><BR>
'real-space to jump-space' mapping is going to wind up with the problem<BR>
that at real star densities you can fit the entire imperium in a box some<BR>
60 parsecs on a side, which suddenly means that there _are_ new frontiers,<BR>
if you're willing to take a fairly short normal-space hop. <BR>
</AJ><BR>
<BR>
Unless those new areas are outside the area accessible by jump-space.  In<BR>
that case there would be little to recommend such areas.<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:59:03 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
At 04:51 PM 12/2/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>We all know from watching movies that *all* races find human females<BR>
>attractive. Its one of the few truly universal elements to all of<BR>
the known<BR>
>races. It may be the most important motivator for space travel.<BR>
<BR>
	Well, can you blame them?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- Friends will help you move. Good friends <BR>
   will help you move a body.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:58:57 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Brilliant Lances (was Re: Hello and TNE question)<BR>
<BR>
At 02:36 PM 12/3/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
>On 2 Dec 99, at 16:11, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> what are corrected difficulty ratings?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>> From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> On 2 Dec 99, at 13:35, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Has anyone out there played Brilliant Lances or Battle Rider? If<BR>
so,<BR>
>> > what did you think of them? Good? Bad?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I played a few games of Battle Rider, and enjoyed them immensely.<BR>
It's<BR>
>> fairly important to make sure that you use the corrected<BR>
difficulty<BR>
>> ratings, though (otherwise you get results that are way off<BR>
compared with<BR>
>> BL<BR>
><BR>
>In short all the sensor and shooting tasks are one level harder or <BR>
>easier (I forget which) than they should be. Some where out there<BR>
(The <BR>
>Missouri Archives?) there's a set of corrections, along with<BR>
assorted <BR>
>enhancements, house rules, etc, etc by Merrick Burkhart (I think)<BR>
for <BR>
>both BL and BR that are pretty complete. They're worth getting if<BR>
you <BR>
>intend to use BL or BR.<BR>
<BR>
	http://www.pcisys.net/~goldendj/Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Somewhere under the Admiralty branch, and/or Rules and Errata ...<BR>
<BR>
- -- Friends will help you move. Good friends <BR>
   will help you move a body.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:22:57 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Atlas<BR>
<BR>
>Atlas was just that.  Maps of each sector of the Imperium.  On;y high-pop<BR>
>worlds were named, no real information.. but it was fun to look at.<BR>
><BR>
>Anybody else photocopy all the maps and tape together a wall map of the<BR>
>Imperium?<BR>
>- --<BR>
Better still: A friend and I colored in all the factions of the rebellion<BR>
in 1122, and used overlays and permanent markers to delineate our "4th Imp"<BR>
setting we were working on...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:49:30 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Grids<BR>
<BR>
>> >Lanthanum Hull grids - didn't they originally appear in SOpM and were<BR>
>> >canonised in TNE and T4?<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Dom<BR>
>><BR>
>> Actually, if you look at the rules section in Regency Sourcebook, no.<BR>
>> RSB's Author used coils.<BR>
>><BR>
>> But there is a non-dgp reference to hull grids; I just can't remeber where.<BR>
><BR>
>Wasn't that in T4?  Both where said to exist if you wanted them.<BR>
<BR>
No, I'm thinking of a CT or MT source. I know that the tug in Supp 9 uses a<BR>
"Net" to haul cargo. The net is not essential except for jump. This<BR>
*IMPLIES* a grid of some kind, but is nowhere near explicit.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, there are several types of J-Drives, each with merits and flaws...<BR>
Standard Imperial (And everybody else by the time of the late 3I): Normal<BR>
book costs, performances, etc. Normal Drawbacks. Lanthanum Hull Grid,<BR>
Zucchai Crystals to initiate the jump proper, the J-Drive runs solely<BR>
during run-up, to pump near explosive-decompensation ammounts of energy<BR>
into the Z-crystals, which feed the grid. Note, I use MT...<BR>
Jn	0	1	2	3	4	5	6<BR>
Tjd	1%	2%	3%	4%	5%	6%	7%<BR>
Tjf	5%	10%	15%	20%	25%	30%	35%<BR>
<BR>
Coil based: Major differences from SIJD are that the JDrive requires less<BR>
energy to initiate, but stays active throughout the jump. They take half<BR>
the energy (and thus half the time) to initiate a jump. (The coil<BR>
discharges the repellency field down to 1m fast... unless kept charged).<BR>
Also, J-Drive hits not only reduce max range, but increase misjump chance.<BR>
If drive damaged or fails or is turned off during jump, apply destroyed<BR>
mishap in 1d6x10 minutes unless jump exit occurs first.<BR>
Jn	0	1	2	3	4	5	6<BR>
Tjd	1%	2%	3%	4%	5%	6%	7%<BR>
Tjf	5%	10%	20%	30%	40%	50%	60%<BR>
<BR>
Irridium based drives: as above types, max Jn reduced by one for same size<BR>
and fuel, misjump chance increased by +1, cost 75%.<BR>
So Irridium Grid drives<BR>
Jn	0	1	2	3	4	5	6<BR>
Tj	2%	3%	4%	5%	6%	7%	8%<BR>
Tfj	10%	15%	20%	25%	30%	35%	40%<BR>
<BR>
Irridium Coil Drives<BR>
Jn	0	1	2	3	4	5	6<BR>
Tjd	2%	3%	4%	5%	6%	7%	8%<BR>
Tjf	10%	20%	30%	40%	50%	60%	70%<BR>
<BR>
Stutterwarp<BR>
n+int((disp^0.666)/(TL-9))% of tonnage=nC, power draw is 250MW/ton (1HG<BR>
EP/ton). JDrive hits reduce n.<BR>
Min TL 10, Max Speed = (TL-9)^4. Only used in the islands cluster....<BR>
Limited only by PP fuel. Cost per ton same as Std J-drives. No misjump (but<BR>
also very slow).<BR>
<BR>
Note also that I allow the J-0 drive; limited to about 1ly. it takes 5j0 to<BR>
reach alpha Centari... TL 9, although manufacturable at late TL8.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:08:22 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Some art on the web (was RE: 102 Vehicles)<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, it'd love to see what you're doing with it.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm going for a DGP pen-and-ink look. I've put up an example of my<BR>
first mostly-finished vehicle, a grav minibus. See:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.evansville.net/~yikes/travxover.html<BR>
<BR>
and click on the "Ormatii" link at the bottom of the page. I've also got a<BR>
very rough first attempt at a 3d modular cutter. I'm still cutting my teeth<BR>
on how how to texture properly (I have the hardest time with<BR>
surface-mapping on spheres).<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:55:05 -0600<BR>
From: "Kurtis Rodgers" <kurtis@fastlane.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
Well, that was even more enthusiastic than I expected.  : )<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:01:50 -0400<BR>
> From: Les_Howie@keane.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<snip><BR>
> ...you have to be a bit careful with drawing density coinclusions from<BR>
> the hipparcos catalog beacuse the mission only went down to about apparent<BR>
> magnitude 13.5.  ...<BR>
<snip><BR>
> While the M's do not have a lot of potential as habitable planets, they do<BR>
have<BR>
> a good change of having gas giants as fuel sources; very important in a<BR>
> Traveller universe.<BR>
<BR>
Absolutely.  This is a good point.  I knew there was a low-end magnitude<BR>
filter, but I didn't know how much of an effect it would have.  It might be<BR>
useful to compare the Gleise near-Sol densities to the Hipparcos data.<BR>
Actually, if I get a better Traveller-esque fictional setting without the<BR>
extra M stars, this could work in my favor.  The ultimate goal is a good<BR>
gaming universe.<BR>
<BR>
> I did some work on the Gleise a while ago.  I believe in that data a jump<BR>
3<BR>
> would get you pretty much anyware with patience, while a jump 1 was<BR>
worthless.<BR>
<BR>
I'm getting similar results, although I want to look at the J1 scenarios in<BR>
greater detail.<BR>
<BR>
> The analysis I did was based around generating "clusters" of mutually<BR>
accessable<BR>
> stars for a given jump number, then determining how many seperate clusters<BR>
the<BR>
> database boiled down to.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly!  This is something I still need to work on.<BR>
<BR>
See!  I knew somebody had to have tried this kind of thing before.  It<BR>
actually ended up being pretty easy to do, too.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:49:03 -0500 (EST)<BR>
> From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1434<BR>
<snip><BR>
> To make matters worse, you're probably missing a lot of stars in that<BR>
> database.  At least that's the case with the one I've tinkered with, the<BR>
> Gliesse data.  The problem is that as distance from earth increases, you<BR>
> get a selection bias towards bright stars and the most common stars<BR>
> (little red M classes) are not detected.  The effect is quite steep, I<BR>
> remember noticing that even at 50 ly, the stellar density in the Gliesse<BR>
> data was significantly lower than that inside 25 ly.<BR>
<BR>
Ouch.  I need to check for this.  Its not the missing stars that bother me<BR>
so much as the idea that star densities in MTU would vary dramatically due<BR>
to arbitrary Real World(tm) limits.  Hopefully, the filter that Les<BR>
mentioned will even out the Hipparcos catalog.  Perhaps this weekend I'll<BR>
write a destination average vs. distance from Sol query.<BR>
<BR>
> One solution to the "too many destinations" problem is to change jump from<BR>
> parsec to lightyear units.  Jump-6 would then become only about Jump-2, if<BR>
> you get my meaning.<BR>
<BR>
Well, people seem to be all over the map on jump adjustments.  I'm reserving<BR>
judgement on tinkering with jump distances.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 14:38:26 +0100<BR>
> From: "Jens" <Jens.Maskus@stud.uni-hannover.de><BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<snip><BR>
> I've converted the Gateway Campaign Data into a chview file.<BR>
<BR>
That sounds cool.  I'm not familiar with chview - I'll have to look that one<BR>
up.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:07:33 EST<BR>
> From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<snip><BR>
> 2) You won't get "mains" of jump-1 accessible stars.  With the range<BR>
> assumptions I made above, though, you'll get "chains" of jump-2<BR>
> accessible stars reaching in several directions outward from Sol.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  I haven't done the cluster/chain grouping numbers yet - that's a more<BR>
complex algorithm than the simple count statistics I'm currently playing<BR>
with.  Ideally, what I'd like to see for MTU would be lots of small J1<BR>
groupings that require J2 to break out of.  To my mind, the OTU is too<BR>
accessable as a whole via J1, but if there really aren't *any* Jump-1 mains,<BR>
that's far worse than too many.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:59:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
> From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<snip><BR>
> I would certainly be VERY interested in both the hip_main.dat file and<BR>
> the database you imported it into, if you don't mind sharing...<BR>
> I would do my darndest to import it into access, if it is not an<BR>
> access database. PLEASE share!!!! <g><BR>
<BR>
Here is an anon FTP URL:<BR>
ftp://adc.gsfc.nasa.gov/pub/adc/archives/catalogs/1/1239/<BR>
<BR>
I intially imported hip_main into Access 2000, but it seemed to be choking<BR>
on the table size.  A solveable problem, most likely, but since I also have<BR>
SQL Server 7.0 running on a network server, I just moved the data there.<BR>
Mucho better performance with tables this size.  FYI: the hip_main.dat file<BR>
is a 14 meg download.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> I really am interested in the form your query took. What database<BR>
> program did you use? Can you share some details on how you set it<BR>
> up privately?<BR>
<BR>
I'm willing to share my SQL source, but I want to make sure this is worth<BR>
pursuing further.  If I can generate a reasonable data set for gaming<BR>
purposes, I'll try to post some of the "how to" details on a web page or<BR>
something.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:15:19 -0600<BR>
> From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
><BR>
> Are the coordinates Galactic or Equatorial?<BR>
<BR>
Galactic.  I intially derived the Equatorial numbers, then converted them to<BR>
the Galactic coordinates.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:58:02 -0900<BR>
> From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
> Subject: Re 3d Mapping reaches<BR>
<snip><BR>
> I'd be interested in seing the full tables (Preferably off list) for<BR>
> J0.5-J6 by increments of 0.5... Send to my alternate e-mail:<BR>
<BR>
I currently don't have half jump increments, but its not hard to do.<BR>
Perhaps for further granularity I could also generate some lightyear<BR>
increment results.  I suspect others may also want these numbers, so I may<BR>
put them up on a web page.  Let me refine these results a bit more.  : )<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 12:06:58 -0800<BR>
> From: Keith Johnson <keithalanjohnson@home.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
><BR>
> Excellent!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!  : P<BR>
<BR>
> I would love to be able to use this for a future game I plan on<BR>
> running.  What software are you using to sort all of the data?  Is it<BR>
> possible to get a copy of your sorted data after you are finished?<BR>
<BR>
Microsoft SQL Server 7.0, but any SQL (structured query language) capable<BR>
database can easily do this kind of work.  Yes, its possible that I will try<BR>
to publish all the gory details via the web.  I get the impression there a<BR>
enough people intertested to make it worthwhile.  : )<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> On humble request:  Please don't take the computer program route for<BR>
> exclusively displaying the data.  I am looking for something functional in<BR>
> a game.  I mean, I own a laptop, I just don't use it in my games.<BR>
<BR>
Well, that's the rub right there.  A 3D star catalog involves a LOT of data.<BR>
Its certainly a problem I am thinking about.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the feedback folks!  All I'm doing right now is exploring the<BR>
problems and possibilities for a 3D Traveller game that meets my campaign<BR>
needs.  If I convince myself that this is 'doable', I'll create a more<BR>
refined, formal database for gaming purposes.<BR>
<BR>
Kurtis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:40:34 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
<BR>
At 4:17 -0500 3/12/99, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:<BR>
>Via electronic medium on 12/2/99 10:05 AM, bonnevil@ima.umn.edu wrote:<BR>
> > Question for the list, particularly someone with access to _Atlas of the<BR>
> > Imperium_:<BR>
><BR>
>I've not heard of this product, who published it, when, and where could I<BR>
>get a copy? Or is it one of those hard to acquire Traveller treasures?<BR>
<BR>
Oh yes....  T4's _first survey_ is a badly regressed form of this data, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Another IG mouse mat substitute<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:49:57 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
At 4:17 -0500 3/12/99, Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
>On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Josh W. Spencer wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > So what DO the Aslan call **themselves**?? I looked throughout my MT<BR>
> > material and the one issue of the Travellers' Digest I have on the<BR>
> > Aslan. I didn't see anything in there.<BR>
><BR>
>Fteirle.  I think it's only in DGP Solomani & Aslan, though, so it's not<BR>
>"canon" for any current or forseeable-future official publications.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ahem. A recent reference - GT Alien Races 2: Aslan, K'Kree and <BR>
various c**p StarMaster escapees.<BR>
By David Thomas, Andy Slack and David Pulver<BR>
<BR>
Line 1, p5, Chapter 1, The Aslan..... "The Aslan (who call themselves <BR>
Fteirle)..."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
CT Alien Module 1 also leaves the first contact by Turks open when on <BR>
page 3 it says "The derivation of the word Aslan is unknown, but is <BR>
sometimes credited to human explorers who first contacted the race."<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1438<BR>
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